Two things about comics

[stormkeeper_lovesall]

This article almost made me interested in the Fantastic Four comics: 8 Ways to Keep the Fantastic Four Movie Reboot from Sucking ,

I haven't looked too hard, but I haven't found hardly any Northstar/Kyle fanfic. (There are a few on ffnet, plus I have found some fan art). I just think it's weird because there is so much slash out there of every conceivable non-canon pairing, yet Marvel gives us a canon male/male pairing, and fans aren't biting. Maybe it's because, as one friend said to me, there are just so many X-men - and Northstar isn't super-popular. He's not unpopular but he's not of the more popular ones. Or, do people prefer to ship non-canon so they can write about what isn't spelled out?

Comments

[shar-bernadotte.livejournal.com]

Doctor Doom is one of my favorite villains, depending on which comic line you read. I like that he isn't a black and white villain. I almost think I'd vote for him over most of the political candidates that we have had lately. LOL!

I guess part of the fun of fanfiction is the potential for what could be rather than what is. *shrugs* I, of course, don't speak for the fans...

[stormkpr.livejournal.com]

The best fandoms do have great villains!

[shar-bernadotte.livejournal.com]

Although I have not seen all of the FF movie, I saw a couple clips of Doctor Doom that made me cringe at how awful a portrayal of Doom it was. Super Hero Squad's version of Doom was better...and SHS is a kids show. *sigh* I feel for SHS Doom though, he has to deal with such a bunch of dorks...

[stormkpr.livejournal.com]

I saw the first FF movie but not the second. I felt the movie did everything wrong that the article said; there was no connection with the characters.

[rhoda-rants.livejournal.com]

Don't try to make sense of the shippers. That way lies madness. But there are a lot of X-men.

Now, I myself have shipped Batman with Catwoman for YEARS, and the comics have never been clear on whether they're canon or not. Maybe that's part of what makes it fun--the speculation. That tension of "OMG JUST DO IIIITTTT!!!"

[stormkpr.livejournal.com]

Yes - I think people love the speculation, which you don't get with canon. That totally makes sense.

[rhoda-rants.livejournal.com]

That's why romance novels don't have sequels. Once the central pair get together, it's over.

[stormkpr.livejournal.com]

Well said!

[schizoauthoress.livejournal.com]

If I had more of a background in Marvel (or knew what to read), I would write you Northstar/Kyle.

I like canonical pairings but the ones you can speculate on are a lot of fun.

[stormkpr.livejournal.com]

I'd love your take on Northstar/Kyle!

I, too, like both canon and non-canon. I think canon can be a lot more fun than it's given credit for.

[schizoauthoress.livejournal.com]

That is true. And even canonical pairings involve some speculation. :)

I have no idea where to start. Any recommendations for issues I should track down to get a good idea about them? I don't like to write couples based solely on wiki articles.

[stormkpr.livejournal.com]

They get married in Astonishing #51. A couple issues before and a couple after are all I've read in addition to the wedding issue. I felt they gave me a pretty good feel for the pair.

[schizoauthoress.livejournal.com]

Duly noted! Once I can acquire those, I shall work on a fic for you. <3

[stormkpr.livejournal.com]

That would be fantastic!

[sevarem.livejournal.com]

I think people are so busy slashing every single thing in sight that they totally miss the canon couples.

No, actually I think that Kyle isn't a very compelling character. He's not an X-Man, his personality isn't terribly well defined, and while I really do like that Marvel finally publicly showed their support for gay marriage, they did it with a fairly bland, boring couple. It smacks of wanting to have the gay marriage angle, without committing any of the characters that people really care about.

Kyle is sort of like Wolverine's non-powered girlfriends. Fairly bland and existing mostly to further Wolverine's story. Then they get killed. I doubt they'll kill Kyle, because that would be terrible for their image, but I doubt they will really do anything to make him a dynamic, compelling character that readers care about in HIS own right.

[stormkpr.livejournal.com]

Sad, but quite possibly true. Though I would argue that Northstar does have some fans and some folks do care about him. He has been around forever too/

[sevarem.livejournal.com]

Sure, Northstar definitely has fans, but I was talking about Kyle, who was created specifically to be Northstar's boyfriend/husband. I think it can be hard to develop a character when they mainly exist to serve another character's story. Kyle has no compelling story of his own. If for some reason, he and Northstar were to split, you probably wouldn't see him again. I find characters like that problematic.

At the same time, I still do really love that they had a big, epic wedding.

But since I'm on a roll... People love slashing movie Charles and Erik, right? But even if they were to split up, you could see each character having a separate and compelling storyline that had nothing to do with their previous relationship. I think that's the key component missing for Kyle.

I'd be pissed if they killed him though. Very pissed. If he's meant to be a long term character, they need to give him a chance and a story.

[stormkpr.livejournal.com]

Ah, I see. I totally agree; Kyle was created to be Northstar's man. I think the writers are *trying* with him, but yeah he doesn't have much of a backstory.

I do hope they don't kill him off, but this is Marvel, so it's hard to say what they will do.

[sevarem.livejournal.com]

I doubt they'll kill him, because if they do, they'd be running into the Buffy problem. I don't know if you were a Buffy fan, but when Willow's girlfriend was killed by the season six villain, Willow temporarily went crazy and, after killing the villain, tried to kill everyone else.

Problematic or compelling storyline? Joss Whedon and co. got a lot of heat for that story. They accused him of using the "dead lesbian cliche" to further Willow's character arc. But before that (and, uh, before the rest of the season 6 shenanigans concerning the two), some people accused the writers of making Willow/Tara so bland, boring, and safe, because they were afraid to do anything edgy with the lesbian couple. That they were a lesbian couple on a primetime, popular show was considered edgy enough.

So that's the problem with Northstar/Kyle, right? If they kill Kyle or have them break up, they'll be accused of homophobia. (I don't want them to kill Kyle. I hate character death.) If they have Kyle really do anything that's not bland and sweet, they might also be accused of homophobia. It's a careful, tricky ground to tread, made problematic because GAY/LESBIAN COUPLES STILL HAVEN'T BEEN NORMALIZED IN POPULAR CULTURE.

Sorry, hot button issue.

tl;dr version: Kyle's more than likely safe, but don't expect a lot from him or the marriage, at least for a good, long while.

[stormkpr.livejournal.com]

Buffy was one of the few shows that I have watched. I felt torn about Tara's death. I didn't see it as homophobic since plenty of people died on that show. But it was sad to see half of one of the few lesbian couples on TV get killed. They *were* getting a tad bland, like you mentioned. Like you said, same-sex couples haven't been normalized in pop culture, so whatever happens with them can easily be viewed the wrong way.

Re: Northstar/Kyle, one thing gives me hope. The writers never made Northstar into the gay poster boy. He was arrogant and sometimes rude; definitely not perfect by a long shot. Seems a little nicer nowadays, but never was a poster boy. That's good. Maybe his marriage can also show normal flaws.

[sevarem.livejournal.com]

I didn't see it as homophobic either, but I can understand why many people felt that way. And even though I thought Willow/Tara had no chemistry as a couple and existed pretty much solely to move Willow forward as a character, I liked Tara and thought killing her was unnecessary to Willow's story. But I digress...

Good point on Northstar. He was kind of a poster boy in his coming out story (it even involved an AIDS plotline, but... it was the 90's), but I think they've done a pretty good job of writing him as fully realized character who happens to be gay, and not a GAY character. Does that make sense?

[stormkpr.livejournal.com]

Ditto on everything in your first paragraph!

And agree on your second too. I think the writers will keep writing him that way too, which is good.